116 - Stop Making These 5 Communication Mistakes with Reds and Yellows - ESSENTIAL Tips for Physicians to Prevent Burnout in Medical Practice

Are you finding yourself overwhelmed by strong personalities in your medical practice? It could all come down to understanding the unique communication needs of Reds and Yellows—and knowing how to avoid the 5 mistakes that can lead to burnout.

In this episode, I’m sitting down with Ellen Gray, Director of Certification at I Said This, You Heard That, to break down the top communication mistakes physicians make when working with Reds and Yellows. As a physician myself, I know firsthand how easy it is to misread these dynamic temperaments and end up creating stress, conflict, and even burnout in the workplace. We’ll dive deep into how Reds and Yellows show up in our teams—and what you can do to build trust, improve collaboration, and keep burnout at bay.

• Understand why Reds and Yellows respond so differently—and how you can adjust your approach to get the best from both.
• Learn the top 5 communication mistakes that sabotage relationships and fuel burnout—and how to fix them.
• Get actionable tips for building stronger, more resilient medical teams that thrive on the strengths of every temperament.

Don’t let these common communication mistakes hold you or your practice back. Hit play now to learn how to avoid burnout—and build a team that works smarter, not harder. And if you’re ready to discover your own temperament type, head over to https://isaidyouheard.com/ to take the assessment and start transforming your communication today.

Links to Books and Resources

• I Said This, You Heard That 2025 Edition
• A Grown-Up's Guide To Kids' Wiring

Follow Ellen and her team on social media:

• Instagram: @isaidyouheard AND @kathleenedelman
• Facebook: I Said This, You Heard That
• LinkedIn: Ellen Gray and Kathleen Edelman

You can also visit the Open-Source Psychometrics Project here for a free temperament assessment 

https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/O4TS/

Discover how medical graduates, junior doctors, and young physicians can navigate residency training programs, surgical residency, and locum tenens to increase income, enjoy independent practice, decrease stress, achieve financial freedom, and retire early, while maintaining patient satisfaction and exploring physician side gigs to tackle medical school loans.

Transcript

Coach JPMD (00:00)
By the end of this episode, you'll know how to recognize why the loudest voices in the room might be the key to boosting your team's performance and preventing physician burnout. Welcome back to another episode where I help younger physicians decrease stress and increase income by transitioning from corporate to independent practices, even without any business experience. In this episode, and really one of my favorite episodes, you'll discover why some of your loudest colleagues might be the secret to avoiding burnout.

and how understanding red and yellow temperaments can transform your practice. You'll also learn the key communication strategies that help you get the best out of red and yellow physicians while keeping stress levels down. You'll also find out how recognizing the strengths and pitfalls of red and yellow temperaments can help you build stronger teams, reduce burnout, and even boost your own bottom line. All right, welcome to another episode of the Independent Physicians Blueprint. And today we have a special episode

with Ellen Gray, who's the director of certification at I Said This, You Heard That. And I'm gonna say that this is more or less a selfish episode for myself because I've been really interested in the temperaments and how they differ from personalities. And I read this book called I Said This, You Heard That, and I have a lot of resources surrounding this book that has helped my team, has helped my family, my kids.

And it's been somewhat of a game changer for me. And one of the things I've wanted to understand a little bit better is how physicians can understand their temperaments to maybe pick a better job, pick a better career. And is there research behind that? I have no idea. And I hope Ellen will be able to enlighten us on that. So Ellen, thank you for coming on the Independent Physicians Blueprint podcast. And we'd love to hear what you do and kind of help us unpack what temperaments are.

Ellen Gray (01:58)
Sure, thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. I appreciate you already, your passion that you share for the temperament and knowledge and how it is a game changer, because that is my story as well. It has changed my life, my family's life, how we parent, how I get along with my spouse, how I interact with my coworkers. So thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Coach JPMD (02:22)
You're very welcome in. So what is a temperament versus personality? Because I know that there's companies that give temperament, not temperament, but ⁓ personality tests before they hire them or after they've hired them. I actually went to the Ransy Solutions ⁓ headquarters when I was doing some financial coaching stuff. he would take us around the headquarters. And every room had a disc profile in front of the doors to understand who that person was before you walked into the door.

And so how does that differ from temperament?

Ellen Gray (02:53)
Yeah, that's a great question. So temperament is over 2000 years old. The father of medicine, Hippocrates, who I'm sure you're aware of, was the first one who really noticed that all human traits and behaviors fall into four different categories. And there is a whole history that I won't get into it on time for today. But over the years, they were given names and then we gave them colors just because the original word sanguine, choleric, melancholic and phlegmatic.

Those are big words. No one really uses them anymore. So we paired them with colors. And the way it differs from temperament, I mean, the way temperament differs from personality is temperament is innate. You're born with it and it cannot change. Whereas personality can change. Personality can be affected by birth order, culture, religion, all sorts of things like that. So your personality can evolve, but your temperament is unchanging. So that's why I love it. All of those personality tests, we've all taken them.

They're all based off of the temperament. So what I like to tell people is really, if you understand temperament, it makes all those other tests make a lot more sense.

Coach JPMD (04:03)
Yeah, and I see some parallels to that because when I did the disc profile at the high, I think I'm a high D and it kind of mirrors the red that I am. So my team members will know and we kind of identify each other as, you know, different colors and some of them are greens and blues and reds. And so today we wanted to kind of not overwhelm our audience in going into all four temperaments. So I think we kind of decided we're going to

Have this episode be about yellows and reds. And next week we'll be on greens and blues. And then we'll, at the end, maybe give us some insights as to how we can identify these temperaments in people and identify who they are. sometimes you really want to know. And I talk to my wife sometimes and she's like, was she a yellow or was she a red? What do you think? And so maybe we'll leave that for the second episode where we can identify some of these temperaments, maybe some tips that you can give us. So tell us about.

I guess all of the temperaments in general and then we can kind of hone in on the yellows and reds.

Ellen Gray (05:04)
Sure, sure. So first of all, let me say everything that we talk about today can be found in the book, I Said This, You Heard That by Kathleen Edelman. I've got it here. I know you've got your copy as well. Sure do. If you're interested, I will give you as many pro tips as I can on how you can identify people on the fly, but there is a digital assessment available at our website, Said This, I Said You Heard.com, which I'm sure will be in the show notes. Sure, it will be.

totally access that if they're willing to. But to get into it, so when we're thinking of temperament, there are four, red, yellow, blue, and green. As Jude said, we'll talk about red and yellow today. So what the red and the yellow temperaments have in common is that they are extroverts. Now, the way we define extroversion and introversion, Ed, I said this, you heard that, is a little bit different than maybe what you heard of growing up.

We're talking about it in relation to communication. So extroverts speak before they think. Extroverts don't have filters. Essentially, they speak in order to think. So the difference with that is introverts, which we'll get to more next week, they think before they speak. They have a big filter. So the extroversion and communication piece is really what makes the reds and the yellows similar.

Coach JPMD (06:27)
You know, I said I'm a red and I've never heard it said that way before, but I definitely tend to speak before I listen. And one of the things I've been doing is affirmations. A couple of years ago, I started affirmations and ⁓ one of my affirmations was I want to be quick to listen, slow to speak because I am so the opposite. I'm like, OK, I already know that I'm just going to burn it out. So that's.

Ellen Gray (06:56)
That's fantastic. Yes, so that is it. They're verbal processors. They're people with a lot of words, verbal processors. So that's what they share. That's what they have in common. What they have that's different from one another is that the red temperament, they are task-oriented people. So what that means is if given a choice between a person or a task, the red will choose the task every time. The reds are all about accomplishing things. So what I mean is the to do is more important than the who, right?

For yellows, that's where they are different than reds. For yellows, they are people-oriented extroverts. So that means that they will choose a person over a task every time. So for yellows, the who is more important than the to do. So they have the similarities in their extroversion and communication, but they have their differences in their task orientation versus people orientation.

Coach JPMD (07:50)
That kind of speaks to where they might be difficult to deal with as well, right?

Ellen Gray (07:56)
Sure, sure. So every temperament, just like a lot of things in life, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. So what we like to teach is, you know, each temperament has so many strengths. And you'll find on page 44 of the book, which I'm going to show real briefly, there is a whole page of strengths for each temperament, right? There's also a whole page of weaknesses. Yeah. Right. And so really what we try to help people understand

is we all have some innate set of strengths that just come naturally to us, that just don't come naturally to other people. And so we try to help people live in their strengths. It's when we are living in our weaknesses that you're gonna get that kind of what you're talking about, that when they can get into trouble, when they can butt heads for sure. The other piece that I think is really important for people to understand is this is all about language. I know that a lot of times people

We'll give a little bit of pushback to these assessments or tests and be like, I don't want to be put in a box. I don't want to be labeled. And what we say is we are not. This isn't about labeling people. This is about helping people understand. They speak a language. So, for example, Jude, you speak red. So look at this. You see the world through red lenses. have for those of you not watching, I just put on some red glasses, red tinted glasses. So.

Yellows speak a yellow language, which means they wear totally, they see the world through different lenses. So two people can be looking at the same thing, but they see it, they interpret it very, very differently. So we do not wanna label people, but we do want people to understand we each speak a different language. And if we're gonna bridge that gap between,

I said this up here and you heard that up here. There's all this gray space in the middle. What we wanna do is shorten that gray space as much as we can. We want to help people understand the way I communicate isn't right or wrong. It's just how I am wired to. This is my innate language. So the incredible benefit is when you understand this and you understand the people around you.

you can start to speak their language. You can start to use words that they really can resonate with and understand. And we've seen marriages transform, coworkers, all of a sudden the culture is different. Everyone's getting along like you mentioned. So many of the companies and organizations we work with will either put sticker colors on their name badges or their little name tags outside their office doors.

Just so you do know, okay, I know what I'm walking into. So I'm gonna start to, I'm not gonna change who I am, but I will out of love for this person. And because I wanna get my point across and I really want them to understand what I'm saying, I'm gonna use green words this time. I'm not gonna come in with my red blazing, right? I'm gonna try to use some words that a green could hear. And so as we'll learn.

You know, some temperaments come across a little more strong than others. The yellows and reds are two of them. The red comes across the strongest. And so, you know, we have to begin with some self-awareness. You go, okay, if I know, because just so you know, I'm a blue red. I like to I'm purple because I'm pretty down the middle. So that means that I'm very, I'm all task and I can be both introverted or extroverted in communication. So I try to...

If I'm going in to talk to a green, now I have to tell myself talk slower because I'm just a natural. Like if you're my friend, this is how I would talk. I talk really fast because I like efficiency. I want to speak the least amount of words possible to get my point across. However, that can come across to other temperament colors. Like I'm being disrespectful to them. I don't care what they think because I'm just trying to get through something. I'm just checking them off a list.

Instead of treating them like a human, I can come across as blunt. There's all these things that I know I could have a tendency to be in my weakness. And so I will, as an example, if I'm dealing with a green who will learn later, is more introverted and more people oriented than I am, I will come across softer. I will try to use words that they can appreciate and understand. So what we want with reds, reds have a high power bar, okay?

As I mentioned with the glasses, each speak a language. So reds speak the language of power and control. Reds have a high power bar. We don't want to bring a reds power bar down. We just want to help reds soften their edges because reds are naturally great leaders. They will naturally take charge of something. They don't have to be in charge, but if they can sense a leadership vacuum, they will fill it. But we want them to be leaders that people want to follow, right? Because you can be a leader by title only.

or you can be a leader that has people following you because they want to. And so you want to have that influence with people. if Reds sometimes have the hardest time with this, they'll cross their arms and be like, well, you're just telling me I need to be someone that I'm not. This is just how I am. They just needed to know. Reds use a lot of hand gestures and pointing to get their points across. ⁓ each temperament, including Reds, brings so much beauty to this world.

And so we just want to help Reds live in their strengths, right? Because a Red is a dynamic visionary who can see and achieve goals, make quick decisions, delegate so well. They are amazing under pressure. They are great in emergencies. They're great administrators. So there's so many, so many positives. So again, with our Reds, we don't want to lower their power bar, but we want to help them learn to speak other languages.

because not everyone speaks red and reds need to know that they can come across a little strong in communication and even in body language. A lot of times reds, like I said, they point, they stare, they can stand close and stand over. You know, they're just very, very to the point, don't like emotion kind of people. So again, we're just, trying to learn everybody's language and learn.

⁓ How to be self-aware and really it's about loving the people around you better, you know, we don't want to be self-centered No one wants to follow a self-centered leader

Coach JPMD (14:29)
So how does that differ from the yellows? Because I know the yellows can be extroverts as well. And so what are the characteristics of some of the characteristics of the yellow? Because I have one in mind right now.

Ellen Gray (14:39)
Sure. So yellows speak the language of people and fun. Yeah. So they are all about their people, their friends who they met, and then also what fun thing they have done lately. So if you want to really connect with the yellow, ask them about the people in their life or what's something fun you did recently. They will come alive while they talk about that. So for yellows, they are super magnetic. And when they're in their strengths,

they're like rays of sunshine. They walk in a room and people just light up. They light up a room. They bring the fun, they bring the energy. And when they're living in their strengths, they can bring, like I said, they can bring so much good to the world, to the office, to the family. But if yellows are living in their strengths, that's when they can become drama queens. They can be really exaggerative. They can interrupt. I'm sorry, yes.

Coach JPMD (15:32)
mean, when they're in their weaknesses.

Ellen Gray (15:36)
I didn't hear myself say that. When they're in their weaknesses, that's when all of those, you know, some of the weaknesses of yellow comes across. One of the pages in the book, 112, we really talk about, it's the strength training exercise. So how do we, if you know you're yellow, if you have deduced in the last few minutes of our conversation, you're yellow or you're a red. And if you think I'm neither of those, well then stay tuned for the next podcast because we will focus on you.

But for the yellows, some of the things that are great for them to practice are pausing and filtering your thoughts before blurting them out. You mentioned that earlier, Jude, right? One of your affirmations, be quick to listen, right? ⁓ Matching the volume in the room or the atmosphere you're in, because yellows have a tendency to be loud. And so again, lowering the volume so people aren't taken aback so much.

⁓ Staying on track when you're telling a story. Being on time and realistically assessing how long it will take to get somewhere or how long a task or a meeting with a patient will take. Finishing what you start. Adulting, being responsible for completing even the boring obligations like bills and errands, right? So these are just some examples that we have in the book of ways yellows can practice flexing those muscles.

Coach JPMD (17:00)
So how did Kathleen actually decipher the strengths and weaknesses? How do you go about that? was it research? Was it observation? Was it surveys? How do we come up with these weaknesses and differences? The weaknesses and strengths.

Ellen Gray (17:14)
That's a great question. So it's really all of the above. There's hundreds of years of study on this. And like I said, a lot of modern psychology is really built around temperament. Kathleen has been doing one-on-one coaching with people for 35 years. So everything that's found in her book comes directly from conversations she's had in her office.

⁓ It was just the strengths came to the surface immediately with each color. So that's what I love about this is that these come from real people with real families and real jobs.

Coach JPMD (17:47)
That's awesome. One of my favorite quotes from the book was that, have the opportunity every day with every person you encounter to hurt or to help. So how can you help a yellow?

Ellen Gray (18:00)
So that's a great question, yes. Her quotes like that are so convicting, aren't they? Yeah.

Coach JPMD (18:04)
Because, you know, we're called to love one another and you don't love someone if you're hurting them. Especially if you know their temperament, you know that they're boisterous and they are loud. What can you do to help them?

Ellen Gray (18:17)
Yes. So for yellows, want, we know that they want to be, they want us to know that they're really intelligent people. They are, even though they have the silly, goofy side that's boisterous and fun and loves people, loves to party. They want us to know that they're very intelligent. So part of it is taking them seriously when it's time to be serious. Got you. Realizing that they do have a lot to offer and they are so much more than just funny. I'm married to a yellow who is like, he's so funny. I mean, he's the funniest person I have ever met.

And so, but he struggles because he's so funny. Sometimes people don't realize his depth as well. And so I think that ⁓ yellows want people to know, we have a lot of depth too and we can go there when the time is right. That's also something I love about yellows is when there is conflict, they bring levity and they can bring some laughter at the perfect times. When it would be awkward for a lot of other colors or people are ready to fight, they can just kind of make you laugh.

in the perfect moments. yeah.

Coach JPMD (19:18)
Same question for Red. What's one thing we can do to help the Reds out?

Ellen Gray (19:23)
So reds, reds have powerful strengths, they have powerful weaknesses. They want you to know that they have thought things through. Reds are super decisive and they are able to make quick decisions. It's one of what I call their superpowers. It will come across that they haven't thought about it, that they're just.

ready fire aim people. that's they while they are they do have a tendency to be ready fire aim people they really have they have this ability to think quickly. And so they want you to take them seriously and to when they come up with a quick decision to just trust them. They really want your trust one of their innate needs is loyalty. And so showing a red you trust them you believe in them and you will be loyal to them ⁓ really helps them shine.

Coach JPMD (20:10)
Awesome. This is a great first episode on Tupper Mints and I think you've given me lot of nuggets to take away from this. I know that we're running out of time this week, but we want to come back next week and I thank you for doing this with us. So before we go, how do we find you? If someone's listening to this episode for the first time, where do we contact you?

Ellen Gray (20:33)
Okay, so I said youheard.com. I said youheard.com. That's where everything is. You can apply to get certified in the temperaments. You can find our digital assessment there. You can find our books. Our books are also on Amazon. So I said this, you heard that, and also a grown-ups guide to kids wiring is available.

Coach JPMD (20:50)
Awesome. Well, we'll see you next week for a great discussion on greens and blues.

Ellen Gray (20:56)
Thanks, Jude. Appreciate it. Thanks.

Coach JPMD (20:58)
Thanks for joining me today. I hope you're walking away with a deeper understanding of how red and yellow temperaments show up in medical practices and relationships and why learning to communicate effectively is a key to reducing stress and preventing medical practice burnout. Remember, when you understand your temperament and the strengths and challenges of those around you, you build a team that thrives under pressure and delivers exceptional patient care as physicians. If you're ready to level up your communication and leadership skills,

Don't forget to visit www.icedyouheard.study to take the temperament test and start making real changes in your practice today. And don't miss out on next week's episode where we'll dive into the blues and greens, the quieter and equally powerful temperaments that bring stability and deep thinking to your team. Trust me, you won't want to miss it. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you.

Next time on the Independent Physicians Blueprint podcast. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. If you'd like to hear more, subscribe, follow, your favorite podcast app so you'll never miss an episode.